This episode was produced by UIC communication students Jonathan Caliso ‘17, Saniya Ahmed ‘17, Alex Van Anrooy ‘17, Anapaula Mejia ‘17, and Edgar Corona ’17. It features a broad take on factors that shape people’s illegal downloading of music online including economic, ethical, and technological considerations. Dr. Zhiyong Yang (U of Texas at Arlington) and Mr. Walter Podrazik (U of Illinois at Chicago) were guests on the show.
Transcript
[MUSIC: InfoNation theme music and intro]
[JONATHAN CALISO]: Welcome to InfoNation, University of Illinois at Chicago’s very own podcast created by students, for the students. At InfoNation we discover how media, information, and communication are created, governed and used. Produced by upper-level communication students in the Department of Communication, InfoNation brings academic research to help make sense of our increasingly mediated society. We go to the library so that you won’t have to.
[ALEX VAN ANROOY]: “Alright, welcome. My name is Alex and I’m here with my co-hosts: Edgar, Jonathan, Saniya and Ana Paula. Today, we have two special guests, but first we’ll be addressing the most important questions of the week: Where do you get the music, you listen to? As well as what are your thoughts about music piracy? Let’s hear what various students around UIC think.
[EDGAR CORONA]: Where do you get most of your music from?
[Student]: Sometimes I use Spotify
[Student]: Radio stations
[Student]: Download it from the internet
[EC]: Have you ever pirated music before?
[Student]: When I was like 12
[Student]: No I use Spotify on my phone
[EC]: What are your thoughts about pirating?
[Student]: I feel it’s unfair to the artist
[Student]: I don’t mind it
[AVA]: From what we heard of this small sample of UIC students there are diverse ways millennials get their music. But the general consensus around piracy is that it doesn’t seem to be that bad of a behavior. Today’s topic will dive into the social and environmental factors that contribute to music piracy and the beliefs surrounding them, and why we’re against music piracy.
[ANAPAULA MEJIA]: The reason why music piracy is such a big issue is because of the Social norms. Friends present a huge risk factor for influencing the opinion and decision to commit music piracy. There is a large influence of peers towards illegal downloading that emphasizes the relationship between social norms and music piracy. A study conducted by Mirena & Kim in 2015 that tested on different facets of mindfulness that are associated with friends to see how or why it encourages music piracy intentions in young adults. University students were asked questions regarding their personal experience and views with music piracy along with background questions retaining to their personality and behaviors online. It was clear that friends present a risk factor for influencing the opinion and decision to commit music piracy. This relationship between social norms and music piracy is strongly connected by the fact that most illegal downloads are made by young adults who constantly are immersed with social life on and off the Internet.
[SANIYA AHMED]: An example of social norms is file sharing. File sharing is pretty common. Sharing happens through social media or via email and some people are pretty unaware sharing a music file in such a way can be considered as illegal activity.
[EC]: An aspect that often isn’t considered in music piracy behavior is how film, music, and news industry frames illegal downloading. To speak a little more on that here is Dr. Z Yang an associate professor of Marketing at the college of business at the University of Texas at Arlington. His research dives into the differential effects of social influence sources on self-reported music piracy.
[ZHIYONG YANG]: There are many reasons behind that. One of the major reasons is mixed messages sent from the public media. Let’s say that, on one hand the industry is spending money on promoting these lawsuits, they write articles and all of this. On the other hand, if you look at movies, lots of movies feature stars they actual view this piracy in a very smart way. You can hack into ATM machine to get money – that looks cool. So all of this, lots of movies that feature genius computer guys because of hacking into machines they actually prevent bigger disasters in the world. Well I see that but on the other hand it also delivers mixed images to people. Second thing is the industry tends to disclose very detailed information about piracy. Let’s say for that lawsuit against the Boston University student, some of the papers would write very detailed papers about where this students gets access to the website and how this person did this. The essential idea is they disclose so much of the detailed information that you can educate. On the one hand, you can educate the better side of piracy, alert people that it’s an illegal action on the other hand you tell people there are certain websites they were not aware of so then they take a look and all of this. Also movies features these stars that actually hack machines, other people’s machines so piracy becomes a very cool thing.
[AM]: Now it is important to address the absence of threats and punishments due to Music Piracy. An interesting study by Levin and Manolis found that the absence of threats from student’s past downloading experiences is the restricted set of condition that leads to continuous illegal behaviors in the future. This study provided Surveys to undergrads that gave them different scenarios that produced different punishments or outcomes from downloading music, in which students were to respond based on their level of fear. Data supports that the stronger and more significant threatening appeals are more effective in stopping music piracy. Therefore, the absence of threats from student’s past downloading experiences is the restricted set of condition that leads to continuous illegal behaviors in the future. This raises the importance of implementing stricter laws and punishments to those who commit illegal downloading. To add further comments, let’s hear what Dr. Yang has to say about this.
[ZY]: Uh well this deterrents, this uh of kind of legal action from the industry. Is this truly um is impactful or not? So this is, the central issue is, this is actually the focus in many ways, I want to understand. So from that, I collected, uh, publishing papers. So we collected, uh, three hundred, and, uh, close to four hundred papers and then screen on them. Try to understand whether other people have found this or not. It’s not just from my own research. So this we call, mega analysis, so I’m almost done and it took me a long time. So from that angle, what I found was that uh in fact there are mixed reviews. However, overall so the over model show that indeed they have impact. So its not, uh, saying this is wasted. It actually have impact. Deterrents have impact. Uh, but in many cases, especially for software piracy, it’s mainly from indirect way. Which means, it’s not, you don’t look at, uh, if you people look at, uh, deterrents and behavior. So then you found that mixed opinions, the people, some people find that yes there’s the impact other people say no. Uh, for example, right after this posting, uh, university student lawsuit, and, uh, there are generally went to a, uh, Carnegie Mellon, uh, university campus. After this, because these are the major computer science, uh, students are there. And top school in the world. To ask, uh, the students so have you heard about that? And some people say yes, some people say no. So even if for those people, if you haven’t heard about this news, they tell you that, this is the news. So then ask you, so to what extent do you think, uh, piracy is really bad? Okay? Uh If I remember correctly, then check the news, ninety eight percent of the students after hearing the news, saying, uh, well piracy is normal. Right so so, piracy you know like, you’re going to uh engage, if people are downloading uh this sort of thing. Well people are saying, uh, well look at that right. So, uh, if I got the chance, uh, you know during the whatever they give different reasons. But the end outcome is basically if you interpret their answers say yes. So nighty eight out of one hundred students they say yes, I’m still engaged. So essential idea is, uh, it looks like that, right, majority of things should, uh, deterrent doesn’t work. But what we found about that is that actually through indirect way. So it’s not going to same one, so right after this incident you ask people, people are gonna get scared and say no I don’t want to do that anymore because of these illegal actions. They don’t do that. So, this is gradually impact the people. So what we found was that, is that actually through indirect. So indirect is like impact the people gradually, impact the attitude towards piracy, uh, how useful suggestions from your friends, whether piracy is good or bad? Your intention, your ethical values, all of this gradually impact you. So essential idea is that, long story short, overall what we found out of this so many articles, what we found is that deterrent still has effect, mainly through indirect path. That’s the core conclusion.
[JONATHAN CALISO]: Economy. Because money makes the world go round. Based on a study I was reading by Dr. Gopal, age and education seem to serve as economical factors on willingness to pirate. With the price of music fluctuating based on artists’ perceived value, many individuals tend to purchase music based on if they could afford it, if they feel that an artists’ music is of value to them and if they are old enough to have stable income.
Regardless, many artists need to get paid. They get their revenue from streaming services and music sales, but even with that need to be paid, individuals are less likely to pirate if they place high value on the music they listen to and if they can afford it.
[SA]: Advertisements can help divert people from pirating. Free downloads and streaming us advertisements to make their content free if the economy is a profound concern then this could act as an alternative.
[AVA]: Ethics. In an article by Altschuller, they conclude their ethical study by saying students feel morally just as technology gets more advanced. For example, let’s say I was living back in the 80’s, I would need physical pieces of technology to copy music files back from one piece to another. But living in the 21st century, I’m able to obtain any music I virtually want with 2 clicks on my mouse. Altschuller is saying that people are morally okay when pirating as technology advances. So, at this time I would like to bring in Professor Podrazik.
Professor Podrazik is the Television curator at the Museum of Broadcast Communication here in Chicago. He is the co-author of 10 books including: Watching TV: 8 decades of American Television. He teaches here at the University of Illinois at Chicago as a lecturer in the Department of Communication with a crossover into the Political Science Department. I would like to give Professor Podrazik a big thanks for joining us. Here he is.
[AVA]: How are you doing today?
[WALTER PODRAZIK]: I’m doing fine, I just began my day listening to music for free on the radio; and started me in a positive mood and then I continued that positive mood driving into the campus area listening to Sirius XM which is a monthly fee service which gives me a wide variety of music that I can choose from and play to my heart’s content.
[AVA]: Well we know how you get music now because you just mention you have your subscription service, but how did you obtain music when you were younger?
[WP]: If you wished to acquire your favorite music, which is ‘oh my friend has a copy of this disk’ whether it be vinyl, this tape, or CD. I would like to make a copy of that on my own. I’m going to purchase blank tape, put it into the recorder; and it’s not as if I’m doing something that is unexpected because..for instance in the 70’s and 80’s, especially in the 80’s, you could purchase cassette boomboxes which we’re dial cassette. That is, it was designed so that you could play something in the first cassette panel and record it into the cassette that’s in the second slot.
[AVA]: Was that a common practice, taking your friends music for your own?[WP]: Probably not, not as common as you would think only because there was..there were technical barriers. Namely, you had to had to possess the equipment that allowed you to take something from one source and record it onto another source.
[AVA]: What changed in the process of time, why do people pirate music, in other words?
[WP]: Couple things changed the equation and digital would be the first explanation. Namely that when you were dealing with physical copies that were vinyl or cassettes you actually see ‘this is what i now possess’ with digital you had this disc that you plugged in but yes there was a little meter that would say this is the first track, this is the fourth track. Other than that it was all the same.[JC]: So what do you think it shifted to, it being easier for consumer to, I guess, pirate music when the sales of physical albums decline?
[WP]: There’s a lot of interrelated factors coming in and I’ve already left out, and I should mention an important aspect which was legal repercussions if you pirated music. The RIAA, representatives of the recording industry, had some very public, deliberately public pursuits of.. A classic case would be like ‘the grandma who didn’t even realize she had downloaded illegally 10 songs and was sued for tens of thousands of dollars’ because this was pirating music.
[JC]: Do you think age factors at all in terms of pirating?
[WP]: Age factor, age does factor into this mainly by experience. It’s not just because you’re younger therefore it’s okay but rather this is all you’ve experienced.
[AVA]: Exactly.
[WP]: So the idea of saying.. Let’s put it this way, when this has always been your world, you are not starting at the point of saying ‘I don’t know if this is okay, let me think about it, I guess it’s okay’. That first part of the equation is gone because it’s always been okay or it’s always been something that you’ve done even if you never saw a declaration saying this is legal or this is not illegal. You say, ‘well of course, all my friends do it, I do it’. There’s a problem and so that’s the foundation for saying ‘I can do whatever I want to do with the music that I have acquired in whatever way I have acquired it.
Uh, basically, back when The Beatles first hit the US and you bought a single and you say or paid a dollar for it… That would be the equivalent of paying about paying nearly 7 or 8 dollars today. Uh, and so even moving ahead 20 years or so… Go to the 1980s: a 15 dollar album in 1980 would be about a 50 dollar album today.
[AVA]: And you’d pay for the experience. Lets call it the experience. You’d pay for the experience.
[WP]: The package, yeah.
[AVA]: The package. A record today would cost about 15 give or less and I did my own research in that an artist is compensated for less than a dollar if they’re signed to a generic label lets say. For that experience. Do you think artists nowadays are fairly compensated for their work?
[WP]: The short answer to the question ‘are artists fairly compensated these days’ is no! They aren’t. Now if you happen to be Bruce Springsteen or representatives of The Beatles or The Rolling Stones, you’re probably going to be better compensated than anybody else. But that’s because… It’s not because you are a better musician. It’s because you now have a stable of lawyers on your side. You now have agents and negotiators on your side. And so that you can leverage every opportunity. Bet let’s go back to that just starting out… Or frankly an artist that has a couple of albums out. A couple of releases. Uh… they’re caught in so many traps to getting fair recompense for their creative work. Let’s say you’re on a streaming service. There’s a lot of flat fee paying on a streaming service. Um, if you do some digging online and look at reports of what individual artists are given and here’s the 17 dollars I made on the last reporting period, here’s the 22 dollars I made. I owe them five dollars. Whatever. So, the structure is really tricky for artists to be compensated if there’s any kind of middle layer involved.
[AVA]: So we see developing social constructs within music piracy and this kind of a send-off but I had the privilege of taking a course taught by you called The Future of Television. I kind of want to use that as a means of transition. Can you give us a perspective of the future of music piracy?
[WP]: The future is going to be not just the desires of the consumers but the strategies of the music distributors. And I think we’re looking to more not fewer limits. Make an analogy to what Microsoft is doing with the licensing of its software as opposed to the outright sale. I have to pay something every year just to use a word processing program? Well, the same might be the case and in fact the same is the case if you look at things like streaming music and all… The moment you stop paying for it is the moment it all disappears. You don’t have that anymore. And so looking at the future, I would say be ready to pay more in general but be ready to demand more of the music and the ability to use the music that you really care about. So it may be that you will spend the 10 dollars or you will spend the 15 dollars for the album as long as you can do whatever the heck you want in your personal listening.
[AVA]: Wally, I’d like to thank you for giving your time to interview with us. I really appreciate that.
[WP]: Thanks for taking the time to chat about what’s really the lifeblood of creativity.
[JC]: Alright. Thanks to Professor Podrazik and Doctor Yang for joining us today. With everything we’ve discussed, it’s obvious that there are many factors relating to individuals and the piracy of music. In the digital age, here in the 21st century, it’s virtually impossible to not be exposed to certain social, ethical or economical factors that encourage piracy. However, as we’ve said: Piracy is a behavior that undermines many legal, economical and ethical protocols. It’s important to understand all the factors involved with this act.
[MUSIC – InfoNation outro music]:
[JC]: Thanks for listening to InfoNation. Coming to you from The University of Illinois at Chicago, Department of Communication. Our theme music was created by Shawn Rizby, a 2015 graduate. We hope we piqued your interest and you learned something new today. Please feel free to engage by rating, commenting or sharing our episode. I’m Jonathan Caliso with Edgar Corona, Anapaula Mejia, Saniya Ahmed and Alex Van Anrooy. Thank you for listening. We go to the library so you don’t have to. And remember, always eat your broccoli.
